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The Hunting Stories Podcast
Elk. Bear. Hog. Turkey. Deer and More. Hunting Stories that will make you laugh or maybe cry; real life chronicles from the field.
The Hunting Stories Podcast
Ep 144 The Hunting Stories Podcast: Dan Adler
Twenty years ago, when Dan Adler told friends and family he was leaving the Air Force to become a hunting guide, they asked what he'd do for "real money." Today, as founder of North America's largest outfitting operation with 61 guides across 42 million acres, Dan has the last laugh—and the best stories.
Dan takes us from his earliest days as a fishing-obsessed kid working on boats at age 13 to becoming a first-generation hunter who built an empire from scratch. With entertaining candor, he shares two unforgettable "bathroom disaster" stories that had me laughing out loud: one involving a negative camper who received some karmic justice via a collapsed toilet seat, and another featuring a confused 10-year-old who misunderstood instructions about his canteen during a youth hunt.
The highlight comes when Dan reveals a technique called "shock bugling" that he reluctantly used with a Navy SEAL client who initially forbade bugling as a calling strategy. When the SEAL finally got his opportunity at a massive bull elk, he experienced what Dan calls "cheese melting"—a phenomenon where even the most disciplined individuals freeze up from pure excitement and physically cannot draw their bow.
Throughout our conversation, Dan offers invaluable perspective for hunters of all experience levels, particularly about trophy expectations. He notes that only 4% of harvested elk exceed 350 inches and less than 1% surpass 360 inches, reminding us that a 300-inch bull is still a remarkable achievement. His advice to hunters feeling the pressure of score expectations is refreshingly simple: enjoy the freedom, the outdoors, and the experience rather than fixating on antler measurements.
Ready to learn more from this hunting entrepreneur? Check out Dan's upcoming book "Suck Less at Hunting" or explore his innovative Zero Outfitter Fees program designed to make guided hunts more accessible. This episode is packed with laughs, wisdom, and the kind of authentic hunting stories that remind us why we love the outdoors.
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https://www.facebook.com/zerooutfitterfees
Insta:
@zerooutfitterfees
@diamondoutfitters_zof
@diamonddanadler
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Howdy folks, welcome to the hunting stories podcast. I'm your host, michael, and we got another great story for you today. Today we're actually thinking with Dan Adler. Dan is the founder of what is now the largest outfitting organization in the country. He reached out to me and said he had some great stories that he wanted to share and I was happy to have him on. Dan did not disappoint. He has a super unique perspective because he has been guiding for so long and has been in front of so many different hunters. It's a really fun episode and I hope you guys enjoy it as well. So I don't want to steal too much of his thunder. We'll get into some of the details about what he's up to in the episode and after the episode, but for now let's go ahead and let Dan tell you some of his stories. Thank you All right, dan. Welcome to the Hunting Stories podcast, brother how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing amazing. Thank you and your audience for having me today.
Speaker 1:This is so cool, yeah man, it's very nice to have you. We got in touch in a unique way, but you're a very interesting man. You've been doing this for a long time. Why don't we start with this man, Because I'm excited to talk to you. Why don't you introduce yourself so the folks know who they're going to be hearing some stories from today.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, thank you, and thank you guys for listening. My name is Dan Adler and I live in the beautiful Bradshaw Mountains at the end of the south end of it, in Prescott, Arizona, right in the and just minutes from Arizona and the West's best elk country and mule deer country and a lot more. I'm an Arizona native, which is unusual, Born and raised in Arizona, went to the University of Arizona, did the ROTC thing, so I did the Air Force after college and when I left the military I decided I wanted to go into entrepreneurship and open Diamond Outfitters. That was 20 years ago this summer. What's kind of funny about that is when I told my friends and family I was going to become an entrepreneur and go into the guide business, everybody kind of asked me well, what else are you going to do for money? And so that was a big eye opener.
Speaker 2:But it was also a really big challenge too, because I'm like, oh you know, underestimate me, this will be fun and the rest is history. You know, 20 years later, 61 guides guiding on 42 million unfenced acres Wow, Six states, two countries, all kinds of record book entries for our clients. But my credit you know I'm the lucky one that gets to be on your podcast. But honestly, all the credit goes to my wife, my team, my social media guys, my PR guys, the TV show and my clients.
Speaker 2:Like, over the years, nothing has built Diamond Outfitters or Zero Outfitter Fees more than our clients. So really a moment of gratitude for you and your staff and everybody that's listening to this, because I'm really just the lucky guy with the name above the door. This is a huge team effort to become North America's largest outfitter. This doesn't happen by accident, so I'm really just blessed and fortunate, right place, right time. But I thought you'd appreciate that that when I got out of the military and told my family and friends I'm going to go be a guide and outfitter, they're like cool, what are you gonna do for money?
Speaker 2:And then you know, we turned it into a really wonderful business, uh, in the first few years. And here we are, 20 years later.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, man. That is amazing and and I'm I think most people think the guides just scrape by, so it's cool that you were able to actually do more than the average guide and create something pretty special. Um, let me ask you this how do you have you always hunted, or like what was it when you were like I'm gonna be an entrepreneur that said guiding was the option for you? Like what connect me there?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I actually grew up a little bit as a really young kid as a fishing guy, loved fishing, not so much interested in hunting, not anti-hunting, but just didn't have the exposure to it.
Speaker 2:So I'm a first generation hunter in my family, but I was into fishing at a really uh, elevated level, like even at six years old. If anybody listening has ever grown up in a really hot place like I grew up in Phoenix, arizona, in the late 70s and 80s, and so what we did in Phoenix in the summer if you want to escape the heat and you could is you went to San Diego. Well, to me San Diego wasn't just about the beaches or the sunshine. For me it was actually about the deep sea fishing, because I couldn't do that in Arizona.
Speaker 2:So at six years old I made my first fishing trip on board the Fisherman 3 out of H&M Landing at Point Loma, and the captain of that boat his name is and was then, tim Green, and at six years old I went on his fishing boat. Seven years old, I went on his fishing boat Eight you fill in the blanks on my summers and when I turned 12 years old I finally got the courage to ask him for a summer job, and so he accepted. So the following year I worked on his fishing boat as a teenager 13, 14 years old a job that actually is illegal now by like child labor laws in the state of California, which obviously that's a whole nother story, right that's funny Following your passion, now illegal.
Speaker 2:I was exactly no-transcript books, like Robert Kiyosaki, rich Dad, poor Dad and some others, I started thinking about it. Some of my mentors in the military were actually getting out and becoming entrepreneurs, and I was really good at fishing, and in high school is when I started hunting. I should backfill that too. So I didn't start really hunting till eighth grade, ninth grade, high school, and then I got really into it. Well, obviously in the military we're hunting terrorists, because I was active duty stationed in Virginia on 9-11 and the years that followed.
Speaker 2:I actually went in the military in 95. And so I was really good at hunting terrorists. I loved big game hunting and I thought, well, maybe when I got out of the military there would be a way to combine my love for hunting with the job. And then I went back to Tim Green, you know the captain of the boat I worked on. I thought wait a minute, he's proof of concept that you actually can make a living in the outdoors. So not only did I start the business 20 years ago, but to this day, tim Green, my captain from 42 years ago, is one of my closest friend and mentors, and I'll travel to.
Speaker 1:New.
Speaker 2:Zealand with them. I was talking to him yesterday. We're probably going to Belize together this summer. So the world is a very small place when it comes to hunting and fishing and, as you can see, I've just surrounded myself with great people my whole life.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. That's a great story. Let me ask so in your teens you fired up hunting. What was the catalyst there? Like a lot of people at that age, being a first generation hunter. That's a unique age. A lot of times it's like 30 or like mid-20s or something like that, or you have family that did it, so what was it for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I can remember being in fifth or sixth grade Mr Vandenberg's class and this kid I had gotten in a fight with in a basketball game named Greg sidetrack, one of my best friends, also to this day, and a guy I've talked to recently is this morning.
Speaker 2:Greg's like I'm like, hey, we're going to go. So we got in a fight in a basketball game and you know guys, once we get it out then we're friends, Right. Those was like fifth or sixth grade, so I tried to other one up, but either way, Mr Vanderwerf put us on the fence and we became friends while we were sitting on the fence in timeout, right. So that's when he started talking to me a little bit about hunting and his dad was a hunter and his neighbor was a hunter, and I didn't know anything about it, but I love fishing and I love the outdoors. I'm like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? We should play basketball. And he says, well, I'm going four-wheeling. I'm like four-wheeling, and now I'm thinking back, you're 12. What do you mean four-wheeling? What does that mean? He's like oh, we go to Dunkin' Donuts at like 3 in the morning, we get donuts and hot chocolate, and then we drive home and maybe in the middle of the day we'll eat some sandwiches and shoot 22s. And I'm like I'm in.
Speaker 1:Where do I sit?
Speaker 2:That's easy to sell, yes, so in my book Suck Less at Hunting, I talk about the first time I ever saw a Rocky Mountain elk and the impact it had on me then and still to this day. And so from that moment on I was like, okay, I got to learn more about hunting, what's going on here? And so I started following in his footsteps. His dad became a mentor and I started hunting with their family and it kind of took off from there.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's cool man. That's very cool. Yeah, that's a. That's a unique path. I think, like I said, most people, like you know, get into it after college or had a family member that got them started early, so it's it's very unique. Uh, I think you're, from start to finish, your story is pretty unique A lot of fun Great memories. That's awesome. Well, let's, let's fire it off, man. Let's tell some stories. What do you got for us? I know you said you have you had one in mind in particular. Let's start there.
Speaker 2:There's so many stories and I apologize. I I'm 48 years old but I still think poop stories are funny, so I got it's PG-13, but those are my favorite too.
Speaker 2:If you've been hunting very long, or even if you know your listeners are new to hunting. Whatever your journey may be, hunting and fishing, especially if you've been doing it a long time, I think you'll know that there are. There is a little bit of karma out there in the hunting woods, and so I tell the story. I've been asked about it on podcasts, I've been asked about it before and I guess I'm not the only one that thinks poop stories are funny. So, anyways, we had about seven or eight years ago, plus or minus I could be off on the years, but in Arizona we used to have a lot of archery deer hunts that could be done over the counter, and one of the most famous ones for those of you guys that are familiar with Arizona mule deer is on the North rim of the grand Canyon, a place called the Kaibab plateau, and when this hunt was still over the counter, my cousin Jeff Urban and I and a couple of the other diamond guides would go up there for about a month before the season and then we would. It's about a three week season and what we would do is we'd run a five day hunt, tree stand hunt, a little bit of spot stock tree stand hunt and then, like a day or two in between, another five day hunt, another five day hunt, and we did this for about five people at a time, about 15 people with me every season and it's like an end of September to early October type hunt.
Speaker 2:So that kind of sets the stage and, as I mentioned at the beginning of this broadcast, um, I've always fancied myself pretty good at kind of weeding out a client that I thought could be toxic in camp or wouldn't be fun in camp. And what I really mean by that is you know, I don't know about you, but when I am deer hunting, okay, if I'm in a tree stand or spot sock deer hunt and I see a bunch of deer in a given day, but nothing, maybe I want to shoot to me, just no judgment. But for me that's still a good day. Right, I had a good time, I was entertained. I'm hunting deer and I saw deer. Maybe I didn't see a shooter, but it was still a good day. If I saw a bunch of deer, well, every now and then somebody slips through the cracks, that and it could actually be toxic in camp and as a professional outfitter and guide, like, we can't have that, because energy matters and we don't want people bringing down a whole camp.
Speaker 1:So these plants are not working. One guy can ruin an entire camp for everyone. I've had that happen before. It's awful. I'm super strict when it comes to my camp um so I totally understand where you're coming from. I had one dude quick, just super quick story, but he basically came in destroyed camp was miserable.
Speaker 1:We didn't go hunting because everyone was one of the hangout in camp and when he left he took all the beer that we had in camp with him, like that's enough to say, right there, like we were just dry. We had a dry camp and it was just like three days of just having the worst person I've ever met around. So I'm with you. I see where you're going with this one. Sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2:No, it's great, so you totally get it. So I feel like I've always done a pretty good job of weeding that out of our camp. And he talks to me long before they get to camp no-transcript and religion and things like that, only because if we want you to know like, no problem, no judgment, yeah, take your business elsewhere, no, big deal.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's all good, there's a spot for everybody somewhere, right? So we had done this camp for years and killed big deer and had a good time and lots of good stories, and so the camp kind of booked itself just on word of mouth. And somehow this one guy we'll call him Jake just to make up a fake name Somehow this guy Jake uh kind of slipped through the cracks and honestly I couldn't pick up on the phone that he was kind of a negative Nancy, and so he got into camp and even the first day, you know, we have this beautiful wall tent camp, or 75 miles from civilization, Like we were way off the grid on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, which to me is better than being closer to civilization on an archery mule deer hunt.
Speaker 2:But we have, like wall tents, cowboy, comfortable wall tents. We have a couple of the Kodiak canvas outfitter tents, Like it's not the Ritz Carlton but it's not a Boy Scout camp. Like we got amazing reviews for our camp and I remember him saying something negative about when I hey, this is going to be your camp, this is. You got your own private quarters, you know. Cot pad, carpet, lantern, table, heater, the whole deal. Separate bathroom, separate shower.
Speaker 2:You got it all lined out yeah, and he made some comment like and I think back then that hunt was like 3,200 bucks and he's like I paid 3,200 for to live in this for five days and I'm thinking to myself, uh, it's a lot less than this and a lot of my competitors camps. If you're going to take a drive down the road and you know you could be sleeping on the ground next to the campfire in a 15 year old fart sack sleeping bag If you want it. I didn't say that, of course, but that's what my mind was thinking. I'm like this is actually pretty plush for the North Kaibab, uh, northern Grand Canyon. So, um, then you know I always have a safety meeting every night. So we're all standing around the fire.
Speaker 2:I do a welcome briefing. I call it a welcome briefing, but it's really a safety meeting. Like I want everybody to know where everything is. I want you to know we're primarily here for your safety and your comfort, but also killing you a big deer is what this is all about and how we built our reputation. There's the bathroom. There's the showers. Here's how to use a military style shower so you don't use up the water right. Here's how you know the separate cook shack. There's where you wash and sanitize your hands, like just a welcome briefing, right. And then I, when I'm done with that safety part of it, I kind of talk about the hunting.
Speaker 2:Now, remember, we're in Northern Arizona at the end of August, beginning of September, and so the situation is this hey guys, sun comes up like literally there's twilight at four, 34, 45. And because it's August, right, sun isn't going down like eight, 39 o'clock. Now you were not required by me to sit in your tree stand all day. You're not required. But this is when trail cameras were still legal in Arizona.
Speaker 2:So that's important to know that our trail cameras and our scouting is showing that these bucks are still on their feet, first light and last light. But they're also hitting these salt blocks in the middle of the day and these transition zones from bedding to feeding area, even at noon, even if it's north of 80 degrees. So if I can encourage you to sit in your stand all day, yes, it's 14 hours, but you're going to reap the rewards, right? You can appreciate that, like, I'm not making you do it. And then again, you made a snide comment about. I don't know what it was, but you can see it was like 14 hours a day. Nobody can do that or something like that.
Speaker 2:Of course, I've got a camp full of people that do it and have done it, and we all usually joke about it, right, like I had one client. I love this that. I picked him up after a 14-day sit and unfortunately he got smashed. That day. He literally saw not even a doe, no-transcript, in beautiful weather. I actually think I've solved all the world's problems and I'm like, totally, you're, totally my guy, you totally get it, that's totally how I work, like you can't shut the brain off, right, so that actually that guy might've actually been in the same camp as this guy we're calling Jay.
Speaker 2:So just a totally different mindset, so let me ask you real quick, jay.
Speaker 1:Was he somebody else's buddy and the buddy was the one that was really excited about it? Or was he the person that initiated this entire thing and he was a one-on-one hunter?
Speaker 2:just found us through word of mouth or maybe at one of my speaking engagements at a trade show, totally, totally out of left field, didn't come as part of a group or anything, and so this went on for a couple of days. There's a little comment here, a little comment there, and it was getting to the point where I was probably going to have to address it. And the morning I was thinking about addressing it, he said and I will give him credit the first two days he did do the 14 hour sit, but as we were dropping him off the third day to walk to his tree stand, he made a comment about hey, I don't want to do the 14 hours again today. Pick me up for lunch If you can. I was like no problem, meet me right here, same spot, 11 o'clock. And so at 11 o'clock I picked him up and I'm that we're going to have a little talk, and he was a little bit better on the drive back to camp and then uh, uh. So, as you can probably appreciate, when the guides get up at three in the morning and they're up doing dishes to like 11 at night that time of year, if they can get a cat nap in the middle of the day, I encourage the team to do that and any hunters that actually choose to come back in the middle of the day. It's the heat of the day, it's really hot. I do try to get them to stay in their stands, but if they don't want to, I tell them hey, this is a good time to take a nap. So, anyways, set the situation up here.
Speaker 2:He was okay when I first picked him up, but when we're having lunch he started complaining about. It was like the same five choices of five different meats for three days in a row, and I'm like you know, name it, you know. So I actually think it's a pretty decent spread for being off the grid, but and you can have something different. I did, but he's making a complaint about that. And then he was like hey, I'm gonna go take a nap. And then he it was.
Speaker 2:It was an obscured comment he made. I swear, though, to you, he just yelled out it's so freaking hot in here, and I'm like this guy just never stops complaining, so so here's the punchline. So I I usually don't get a nap in camp ever, but this particular day, when he went down for something, god inspired me and I was like I'm laying down too, and I was sharing a tent with one of my guides named Pat, and Pat was already out. I'm now. I'm racked out and it had to have been about an hour later, because at first I'm hearing this horrible noise. I actually thought I was in a dream and it wasn't. When he got back, he changed out of his camo. I should probably set this up. He's 6'5", about 330, 340.
Speaker 2:And when he changes out of his hunting clothes and I'll give him credit, he did always change out of his hunting clothes to eat. He put on a big like southern style bib and overalls, which actually I thought was pretty cool. So you got to kind of visual the height, the weight and this man. So I get woken up to this horrible noise and at first I'm like this has got to be a dream. I'm just dreaming. And then Pat jumps up real start. He's like what the hell is that? I'm like I don't know what is that. And it's this horrible screaming yelling. But it's like muffled, like they're shifting and noise.
Speaker 2:And I we just slam open the door on the tent to see Jay running away from camp overalls totally dropped down to his like knees, kneecaps and ankles, and he's trying to run and not get tripped and he's throwing his arms like oh my God, he's being attacked by bees. What do we do? And then I start running towards. I'm like now I'm going to get attacked by bees. What do I do? And then, as I get closer, I start smelling something, but I'm not quite sure what it is. And then now I'm only like 30 yards from him and there's no bees and he just starts screaming. I'm covered in it. I'm covered in it and I'm like what has happened? What had happened was, after all these days and days of negativity, mid through his nap he decided he needed to go do a sit-down job at the community toilet.
Speaker 2:okay, when he sat down. He threw himself so hard on the medical toilet seat we use in camp.
Speaker 2:The seat split and he went down he went down, dropped trowel in our five-day-old cat hole of human excrement oh my god. So never have a shitty attitude in deer camp, because that's what can happen. So that's just. And I have more stories like that, but later not. Some are a lot less dramatic, although equally funny. But I mean, just think about that, like thousands of hunters that have come through our camps over the year and leave it to a guy who's just negative the whole time, right To have that happen to him. It's never happened since. These aren't like $12 Walmart seats, by the way. These are $270 medical grade seats designed for hospitals that Diamond Outfitters invested in to have good experiences in the woods.
Speaker 2:You know when nature calls this guy, just literally split it, like it actually split both, all four legs V down, unbelievable. And in that moment you know it's still funny now and in that moment I was like, oh, this is karma. But you know you're 30 yards from a guy covered in it. So at the moment I was more inclined to. I could hear everybody busting up. Just crack up Like this is the guy that had to happen to of everybody in camp, because he was the one that had a crappy attitude all week, right, yeah, you reap what you sow man.
Speaker 1:That's disgusting for one, but it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a great story uh, oh, my goodness man so I assume his attitude did not get better I actually thought he was gonna leave because he was pretty horrified and at first he started blaming other people and then he calmed down. He never did get a deer. I don't think he ever shot his bow, which is unusual, I will say that. But my team the guys that actually like were spent the most of the time with him. They said I'm pretty sure he's been getting down from a stand and taking a nap from like eight o'clock to three o'clock and then climbing back up. And one guy found a Snickers wrapper like 25 yards away. So it's not private property. You don't have to stay in your stand. If you want to walk around, you can. But we had, you know, we've got decades of work into this. So generally speaking not all, I guess, but generally speaking, you know, don't guide.
Speaker 2:The guide is a good rule of thumb, especially on their home court. So even when I go out of state on a guided hunt, they're like well, dan, what do you think I'm like? Dude, I don't want to think I'm a. I'm an Arizona outfitter, like I will. I will make decisions when I'm home, but right now I'm on. You know, this is your farm in Kansas. This is a student. I'm the client, I'm going to completely default to you for 90% of it. Yeah, if you're like, do I want a glass here for 10 minutes? The answer is always going to be yes, I always want a glass if you give me an opportunity to glass. But generally speaking, I'm never going to guide the guide.
Speaker 2:This guy wanted to guide the guide, obviously never came back. He is on our mini blacklist, which, if this is news breaking to anybody, most outfitters do have a mini blacklist like that. We may or may not share with other outfitters, but like, never have Jay Smith in your camp. And here's the reasons why. It wasn't just a personality thing toxic to the camp, toxic to the clients, blah, blah, blah. It's not like he and I didn't mesh, because if it wasn't, if it was just he and I didn't mesh, you guys might be best friends. You know, yeah, put them. If it was just he and I didn't mesh, you guys might be best friends. Yeah, put him on somebody else. But this guy in particular was just toxic and I wouldn't want him in any of my buddies' camps. So kind of a unique circumstance there. But he wasn't welcomed back, never came back, never heard from him, never even drew his bow and on that camp on the North Kaibab, like I said, for anybody listening that knows that area, you either pretty much are going to get a big buck or you're going to miss a big buck or you're going to pass on some bucks. Uh, the odds of you not actually drawing a bow on a five, seven or 10 day hunt's pretty nominal in that area. So super high dense of deer, plus our scouting, our salt licks, our water. It's all very tactical, done over decades, right, so it's, it's totally dialed. Sadly that hunt went to a draw. Oh, probably six or seven, maybe eight years ago. It's part of the zero fitter fees program now, um, and the deer quality is up, but sadly it went to a draw from the perspective of not just anybody can come and book that hunt anymore. It is subject to a draw now in Arizona.
Speaker 2:But it's a magical place. If you've never been to the grand Canyon, you'll. Everybody hears about the South rim and that's where tourist buses go. The North rim is a little unsung hero. It's about an hour and a half from the South Rim because you have to drive around it and cross Marble Canyon Bridge or come at it from the other side. But the North Rim is actually pine trees, beautiful. There's free range bison up there, in addition to mule deer, lots of Merriam's turkey. Beautiful place to go, super cool travel hack. Like nobody seemingly knows that the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is a totally different experience. South Rim, think like high desert, north Rim pine trees, oaks, gorgeous. So two opportunities when you go to the Grand Canyon.
Speaker 1:Kind of like a north-facing slope is dark, dense timber. That's interesting.
Speaker 2:I never would have guessed that.
Speaker 1:I will have to check it out. My wife and I have been actually talking about getting down there sometime with the kids now that they're old enough to kind of enjoy that thing, and you?
Speaker 2:don't worry about them, just wandering off the cliff so no for sure north and south rim that's cool.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Um, yeah, I'm so surprised that he didn't give it his all, like if you're gonna invest not only your time but your money and the guide's like, hey, do this, you'll get yourself a great deer, right, do this. Like it's that simple, like you guys have got it to a science. That's crazy to me.
Speaker 2:I always say common sense isn't very common anymore. But like I had a rough hunt in Kansas this past October First time I'd been back there in 10 years. But every time the guide or the outfitter asked me something, I'm like dude, you've been farming this land for 45 years. You tell me to sit all day. You tell me to go in an hour and a half early no-transcript just to get to the stand If it means I'm getting out there before the deer going to that field. But there's a couple elk waterholes in northern Arizona that were so popular I'm not exaggerating. If you wanted to get it you had to be in the ground, blind or tree stand, practically in a sleeping bag, like 2.30 or 3 in the morning.
Speaker 2:And then at 3.30, somebody's going to come by with their flashlight and you got to run them off 4 o'clock. That stuff's kind of tapered out here in the last couple of years. But yeah, kind of tapered out here in the last couple of years. But yeah, so don't guide the guide. You know it's my rule of thumb and really a really good outfitter should never in my opinion, should never ask a client what do you want to do today? I think the better question is how are you feeling today? Because my plan is A, b, c and D and this is what we're going to do, unless you're sore from yesterday or you're not feeling good. We're going to do this Because what I found in 20 years with 40, 61 guides on the team, if I ask a client what do they want to do today, that sounds like insecurity on my part.
Speaker 2:That sounds like I don't know what I want to do today and I always have to have a game plan. You know I'm not saying my game plan is perfect. Every time I screw up a lot of time, but I'm going to tell you the plan and that's going to be the plan, unless you physically or mentally or timeline can't do it, as opposed to hey, what do you want to do today? Which sounds very uncommitted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:Cool, well, that was really interesting. I had no idea about all of that. I have heard, however, like you talked, about people getting in really early like before the game cameras were banned, people getting in really early like before the game cameras were banned. I always heard that, arizona, you go to a watering hole. There's going to be 70 game cameras right there waiting for you. So I'm not surprised, but let's go. What else do we got? What other stories do you have top of mind?
Speaker 2:Well, if we, if we, if you don't mind if you'll humble me, I'm going to stay on that theme for a minute, but it's a totally different, a totally different deal. So one of the things we love to do at Diamond Outfitters is youth hunts and veteran hunts and kid hunts as well. And so we had a youth hunt a few years ago where we took this father's son out and the kid was 10 years old. It was the first year he was eligible to hunt and I'm telling you this was like the coolest kid I'd ever met. He was so nice, he was so excited. It was his first big game hunt and the night before the hunt I get to give a little speaking engagement at the camp for the Arizona elk society.
Speaker 2:It's a whole thing. They set up camp. They have sponsors for the food. It's just a youth camp Like you could literally envision it in your mind. So I get assigned to this young kid. He's just total stud. I'm super excited for him. He's doing the whole uh that morning Like he's just a chatterbox that morning, eating the donuts and the eggs and the orange juice and just can't wait to get down and his dad and I are getting to know each other.
Speaker 2:His dad's a total stud. Anyways, we start making our way up in the dark to this glassing mountain. I'm like in my mind I'm sure we're going to totally tag out in the morning, because we've been watching this big herd of cows for like four or five days and there's no reason to leave. And very few kids were willing to walk up this hillside that we were going to walk up and that would actually put us in shooting range. So as we're going up there, the kids like 20, 30 yards ahead of us and a lot of times I would kind of reel that in um and keep them closer. But we had so far to go up this hill that I was like I'm just going to let them get some of that nervous energy out.
Speaker 2:Well, what was interesting was, slowly but surely, we kind of realized his feet his feet weren't quite getting as far apart as they had been before, and so by the time we got up to him, his dad's like hey, buddy, do you need to go to the bathroom? He's like yeah, dad, I got poop. I was like oh, okay, and I was. He's like he's caught in my headlamp, which I still to this day. I think this kid was really cool. He had it was his uncle's, I think it was his uncle's army canteen on his back, right in the small and I had like this really cool story behind it.
Speaker 2:Well, as he went off the trail, something in my mind tripped and I was like, hey, make sure you take that canteen off before we go to the bathroom. It literally like just popped in my head, like it wasn't even planned, it just popped out of my mouth. So they were gone for a few minutes while he comes back and we start walking up the hill again, and now he's like 20 yards ahead of us again and things are really going good and he's all excited again Like, okay, perfect, just starting to get a little bit of gray light out right. And every now and then I'd get a whiff of something that didn't quite seem right.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, and I was.
Speaker 2:I looked at his dad like you smell that? And he goes yeah, I smelled that. And uh, I was like, okay, but then it'd go away. And then a couple minutes I'm like it got stronger and finally I was like, hey, tim, come here, let me, let me check something out. And he comes back. I'm like, hey, pick your shoe up. And I found my flashlight on his boot. And I said, let me see your other one. It's flashlight on his boot, nothing, totally clean. I'm like, oh, that's weird. So we keep walking. And then his dad and I look at each other again. I'm like I still smell something. Something ain't right. We check our shoes. I'm like, hey, tim, come back. I checked the back of his pants, front of his pants. I'm like, no, he's like something wrong. I'm like to ask him a question. And that's when it hits me. I look back over there and I see the canteen on his back. I said, tim, did you take your canteen off when you went to the bathroom? He goes yeah, I did, just like you told me.
Speaker 1:I went huh.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute. Did you take the canteen pouch off when you went to the bathroom? He goes, no, why?
Speaker 1:And I went no way to the bathroom.
Speaker 2:he goes no why? And I went no way, no way. This kid pooped in his canteen pouch and then crushed his canteen back in the pouch and walked up this mountain. And I'll be damned, that's exactly what the kid did. Now I've got 40 years of hunting stories. I realize the first two are poop related, but when you said crazy, weird, different stories like I apologize to those that don't think pooping at 48 years old is still funny, but those two stand out as just like amazing, like truly amazing stories. Anyways, the poor kid, he was horrified I'm pretty sure that canteen and canteen pouch are still on the side of that hill Once he realized what he had done in the exact same spot, forever immortalized right there on the mountain.
Speaker 1:I believe it. That's where. That's exactly where I would have put it, man. And you know what people? People have told enough poop stories that, like when, when I have, I have a lot of listeners that come on. They always have their own poop story, so everybody's got one. It's not a big deal. I'll share no not at all.
Speaker 2:I'll show you the first one we ever got.
Speaker 1:Um, always draw a blank on this gentleman's name, but he was elk hunting the night before. He had a little bit too much to drink, right, and so of course that sometimes makes you a little bit more fluid down there. Um, either way, he's out in the morning, he's bugling for elk in colorado. He bugles, he's got an elk calling me in and and it's just, it's on a wire, it's coming right to him, he goes full draw and he's waiting for the body to show up, just so he can, you know, get a clean shot. And he just, his stomach just starts to gurgle, just starts to gurgle, and he's like, oh no, and this elk is just like stopped, two feet from where it needs to be for him to take this shot, and the elk never moves and he just holds it. And he holds it until he has to let go and not of the bow, of his problem, and and he says that it filled his boots.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So it just went down his legs into his boots. He let down and just had the longest, most terrible walk of shame he's ever had in his life.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so awful. I hope he had a buddy that could drive him, so he was on the tailgate or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I didn't even know. That's a great question, drive him. So he was on the tailgate or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, I didn't even. That's a great question, I don't know. I just at that point I was laughing too hard. Yeah, he did a better job telling it than I did.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, what a nightmare.
Speaker 2:Right, I did something else uh, I did think of something else, not poop related, that you guys might enjoy. If you want to hear an all-coming story, yeah, let's do it. Oh, this, this is a really cool story. So, again for those, for those of you that are familiar with Arizona, there's a part near the Grand Canyon, the northern boundary of it, the north, is the south of the Grand Canyon. It's called the Kaibab National Forest, and about 10 or 12 years ago now I had the really cool opportunity to guide a US Navy SEAL. Now as a veteran and as somebody who brings a lot of veterans in camp, as a donor of veteran hunts, we get to see a lot of veterans and they're all amazing, they're all unique, but the story you guys are going to appreciate today is a new term I learned. So I've been hunting for 40 years, professionally for 20 years, and I had never heard this term before. I'm going to share this new term with you.
Speaker 2:So we're out with this Navy SEAL. It's an archery out camp on that Kaibab National Forest, northern Arizona, in a unit that's notorious for arguably the biggest bulls in the United States, like Waldo. Our new number seven in the world bull came from this area and my TV show Diamond Outfitters, the most viral elk video, all from that same area that I'm talking about. And in this particular year, for those of you that are newish to elk hunting, you might know like a light rain, what we call a monsoon storm out here in the Southwest, a light rain with some fog mixed in in the end of the summer, like September, can be some of the best stalking weather for elk, because they'll get up, they'll move around, they'll bugle, you know it drops the temperature 10, 15 degrees. It's some of your most epic hunting weather and we're having one of those years with lots of monsoons, there's a lot of water and obviously when there's a lot of water, the water holes and wallows can be a little less effective for hunting. So set that up stage. Set that stage up for you visually.
Speaker 2:So this hunter and I, navy SEAL very fit, way more fit than me could crush me up and down any mountain if you wanted to. But we were like in sync from the day we met, like I would tell him hey, I'm dropping back 40 yards, I'm going to do this, this and this. You stay right here. I'm going to go over here 20 yards, we're going to do this, this and this I'm going to go do anything. I said it was roger that roger, that roger that we're just in sync from day one and he had booked a 10-day hunt. You know, if he gets deployed, who knows what happens on a dime? He could be called to go back to work. So we had all this in mind.
Speaker 2:It was a really good year of antler growth. Like I was literally telling him look, I know you've never killed an elk before, but this hunt you don't want to shoot anything under. Like 350, 360, like be really picky. And he's like, from day one he's like the first 300, I see, I'm killing, I'm killing, I'm killing, I'm like, not this year, like, if you'll just trust in me, we're going to do fine.
Speaker 2:Well, um, what had happened was we had seen a bull, a bull that we ended up calling the kudu kudu bull, and he ended up making the cover of a couple of magazines. So I guess I'm alleviating to the fact that he ultimately was successful. He ultimately was successful. Yeah, sounds like it. He was called the Kudu Bull. So if you could picture this in your mind, he was a mainframe six point on his left side, like a big bull, like a 370, 375 on his left, on his right side it was a single beam that went out, curled like a Kudu the African spiral horned antelope and petered out like a Kudu. Okay, so crazy looking bull that is crazy looking.
Speaker 1:We knew he was going to score terrible. Right, he's going to score nothing.
Speaker 2:But he's like a 370 on his left if he was matched on the right and he was nothing but this giant kudu club on the right. Well, for better or for worse, my client saw this bull and decided that, okay, I'm going to shoot that bull, give him the opportunity. I'm like, no, you don't want to shoot that bull. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's not going to score. But he was so infatuated with this bull, so fast forward. Now, when I say that bull got killed, well, I'll save it. So fast forward a few days. Once again it's raining. This is a full monsoon downpour. This isn't the light sprinkle I was saying that can be so helpful for elk hunting. This was like the ruts in the road where rivers are smoothing water and I knew the bull was going to be on his feet super early. Almost any of our shooter bulls on our hit list we were able to get pretty close to within bow distance and we're able to call bulls. In that we'd either pass or, if they were shooters, our clients were shooting them. But as the season goes on and this is kind of a insider hack for a lot of you guys listening that are elk hunters, because a lot of states have two seasons and so I'll just take that bunny trail with you real quick. People often think the second season is the better season because there's more bugling activity, it's more that Jurassic Park feel, which is totally true and I totally agree with. But if you look at the statistics for the unguided hunter, so don't look at the guided hunter stats because they're skewed, because they're professionally guided hunts. But, believe it or not, most Western States the success rate on that first hunt, especially for DIY guys and especially for hunters that don't have a buddy calling for them, is actually a little bit higher on the first season than the second season of September, because the bulls aren't all matched up with cows yet and they're more responsive to calling compared to the later season, which we all think of as Jurassic park and bigger bulls do seemingly come out of the woodwork, but they've got a lot more eyes right and if they've got a harem of 20, 30, 40 cows are hard to get close to. So back to where we were. I just want to take that for the benefit of your listeners, because they often poopoo the first season Like I'd rather go the second season and don't understand that. You know both are equally good in their own Right. So we were having these situations where we could, we could call bulls in to pass or shoot on. The early season later is getting more and more difficult.
Speaker 2:Well, the the the other thing about this Navy SEAL that was very unique. We talked earlier about don't guide the guide. Now, this was early in the hunt, and when I say we yin and yang, we really did. But there was a caveat From the beginning.
Speaker 2:From the beginning I don't know if he told me he had been watching Will Primo's videos or what, but from the beginning he was like hey, I want this hunt to be like A, b, c and D, but the one thing, dan and I know you're a pro, but the one thing I really don't want you to do on this hunt is bugle at elk. And so the moment the word but comes out of anybody's mouth, like I want you to do A, b and C, but like everything that follows after, but you know is not going to be good. Yeah, like if, if, after that is bad, right. So same thing here. He's like I know you're really good at this, but I don't want you bugling. He's like I know you can cow call and do other things. Are there other things you can do besides bugle? And I'm like yeah, whatever, if you want me to bugle, I'll play along, no problem. So something, some video, it told him, and in my seminars too, launch, eradicate a hunt anyway.
Speaker 1:So he's like hey, so he just yeah, so real quick. Sorry, uh, he just watched some video or had some predisposed idea. The bugling was too much. It wasn't like he wanted the experience of a silent spot in stock, or is just a video?
Speaker 2:he was okay with me doing cow calling. He was okay with me doing estrus or lost calf calls. He was okay with me raking trees, but something he had seen or read or heard more than once. He had multiple instances where his programming was don't bugle at bulls, call them other ways, but don't bugle at them. So at first I was like, hey, I'll play around. I've got a million different ways to call an elk. But now fast forward to this kudu bull and a couple of the other shooter bulls Late in the season, lots of moisture, so you've got to set the scene here.
Speaker 2:Lots of moisture, really good rut, really good antler growth year. And now we're late September and the really good herd bulls not the satellites, but the really good herd bulls literally are like 20, 30, 40 cows, which makes for an incredibly fun hunt but also really increases the level of difficulty Because even though it's that magical time of year where the bull doesn't care if he lives or dies, he's only got breeding on his mind. The lead cow, I argue, the lead cow at the end of September is more defensive of a bull than the bull himself on the light rifle hunts in November, october, november, december, like that lead cow is on point. She knows she's the matriarch, she's responsible that the bull lives. She's responsible that every cow lives. Just watch him coming into a water hole. We can talk about that later. Like you know that lead cow the matriarch, she's in charge of everything. So that later hunt with the rain. The thing the rain helped us with was we could sneak in close when they would bed down, but there was so much moisture they didn't have to travel as much.
Speaker 2:But again, super fun, super entertaining hunt, one of the most memorable ones ever, cause we're in big, big bulls every day. Um, we just had a lot of weather and within some of our strategies that are no brainer strategies and dry years don't play out when there's a healthy monsoon, but I can give you all the plus reasons for it too. At the time, any case, what had happened with this bull was he would not respond to cow calls like some of the other bulls were doing. He was a fully mature bull. He he clearly had seen this movie before because he had so many cows. I mean, think about it if you're at the bar with 25 girls, are you willing to leave the 25 girls to go get maybe maybe one more and risk losing your other girls at the bar right. Not really a practical example for me, but I've never been there myself either.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, right. So anyways, this bull, um, was very responsive to cow calls, but but they were always response calls of hey, I'm not coming to you, but hey, I'm over here. So if I would cow call her estrus wine, he would. He would respond, but never leave his cows. Never, like this bull would not leave his cow. We would get like within 120, 150 yards of them, sit on them all day, wait for him to get up and check his cows and wallow, try to kill him then.
Speaker 2:But because there's so much water he didn't have to travel to go water, because that's one of our insider hacks is, a lot of hunters want to push that bull while they're with cows in, while they're on their feet. But a really good tip is, if you have the bulls bed down, don't, you don't necessarily have to try and stalk them while they're bedded down, because their their their senses are heightened when they're laying down and they're not making as much noise. So they're going to hear you coming. And if the wind's not perfect, it's a total non-starter. To begin with, what? But if it's a dry year, what? What I tell my clients is hey, we can see the elk bed at 120, 150 yards. We're going to bed down too. We don't need to call to him anymore. We know he's right there. But there's a good chance between 11 and three he's going to get up. He's going to circle his cows, he's going to check them and if we've got a spot to kill him then we will. But if not, there's also a good chance that he's going to go wallow or water. He's going to leave his cows. We're going to give him a hundred yard head start. If we think we know what wallow or water hole he's going to, we'll intercept him and get him killed, get the wind right, get him killed either on his trip down there or, even more likely, on his trip back up.
Speaker 2:Well, because it was so wet this year, he didn't have to travel as much and, as I said, I could call, we could alwaysle, we could always locate him, always locate him. But remember he never wanted me to bugle at this bull. So over the days of this happening with other bulls too, you know I got a little bit later in the hunt. I said hey, I think I know you're real big on me not calling, but I hope you know you've seen over the last several days that you know you and I hunt really well together. I don't want to disrespect your wishes, but I think there's a scenario that's going to play out where I could bugle that bull in and we'll get them killed.
Speaker 2:And, believe it or not, it was the only time I really saw him change his demeanor. He's like no, I really, I just really don't want any bugling. Okay, all right, you're the boss, so now fast forward. Now we're getting close to day 10. Okay, more rain, more flooding, harder to get around in our vehicles. I'm not getting negative because I'm literally the most optimistic hunter you'll ever meet, probably to a fault.
Speaker 2:But I'm like I always walk in the wall tent every morning to the breakfast shack and I'm like today's the day, today's the day, today's the day because I really believe it is. And so now we're getting late in the hunt, it's getting wetter, which is making the traveling harder and harder to sneak in on these elk, and I'm like, okay, I've got two choices. I can tell him I'm going to change the plan or purposefully go against his wishes, but give him the outcome he wants. Right, so if I need to do what I need to do, but it gives him the outcome he wants, I think he'll forgive me was my mindset. So we've got our bowl. I've had a mindset with my wife before where I'm like.
Speaker 1:I'm going to do what she doesn't want me to do, but she'll like it in the end and it doesn't always work out the way I think, so I hope your story ends better than some of mine, but continue Amen.
Speaker 2:So, so, um. So we've got him located at like three, 30 in the morning, pitch black outside. We know his bugle, we know he's right where we left him the night before. Fortunately he's late enough in the hunt and it was wet enough that there wasn't a lot of other vehicles out there. A lot of hunters had given up at that point or gone home or tagged out, and we're still hunting this big giant Now. It feels like it's a private property hunt. We practically have this bull to ourselves. So totally glorious scenario.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, do I? I probably don't want to surprise him, but I didn't want to give him full disclosure either, because at the end of the day, I had his outcome, his desired outcome, in mind, which was to be successful. So what I said was hey, I might mix something up today. That's a little bit different. I don't want to tell you what it is, because I'm going to let nature kind of dictate how this plays out. But most importantly, most importantly, what I want you to do is, whatever I tell you to do, it is if I tell you, stay by a bush, do this, do that. You just got to trust me, even if I drop back and you can't see me anymore If I tell you to stay at X, y, z tree, it's not stand at a tree, it's stand at that particular tree because, especially if I can't see your body, I'm going to use that tree as the landmark.
Speaker 2:So if I'm raking a tree over here and cow calling over there, and whatever I'm doing over here, the goal is, even if I can't see you, to bring the shooter bull right by that tree. So I'm going to be running around when I hear his bugle so I know if he's coming, what I need to do to get him to come in front of you. So he's like, okay, got it. Now you guys probably know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:For those of you that have never heard of the term shock bugle.
Speaker 2:A shock bugle is a professional level move. It's also what I call a hero or zero move. By that I mean, when I do a shock bugle it's either going to immediately get the result I want, but the other 90, 80, 90% of that is, or it's going to blow the elk out of the country altogether and you may not see him again for a day or two. But I know, based on this bull's learned behavior and what he's been teaching us the last 10 days, he's not coming to anything else I've done, and there's been very few satellite bulls that have challenged him. So I'm thinking in my mind okay, I think I know what I have to do. Well, sure enough, 3.30 in the morning he's talking, he's on his feet already. It's the perfect setup. We got the fog, we got the, which helps with our scent. For those of you that are new to this game, it can help with our scent a little bit.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that, and so now we're kind of moving in to get our strategy. This whole time had been well, we're going to bed down too and wait for him to get up and maybe go wallow or water, check the cows and we'll try and kill him. Well, sure enough, he gets up and he starts checking his cows. I'm like, okay, perfect. And that's when I turned to him and keep in mind, this is a Navy SEAL. I'm like, okay, just like the past few days, I actually want you to stay exactly in this spot, exactly in this tree. There was a little boulder there that I knew I might be able to use as a reference if I needed it to, but mostly it was the tree, because I could see that from yardage. I said, listen, I'm going to be super aggressive, it's late in the hunt. I'm even going to take a chance of boogering this bull just a little bit if I need to, because I think we have a place to ourselves and with as many guys as we have in camp, I think we'll really relocate them. But, just like you've done every day, just trust me and be ready. He's like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, this bull had gotten up, he started to check his cows and he would let out these little soft bugles, which were basically celebratory bugles. They weren't like I want to fight or I'm looking for bull cows. He was just like I'm chilling, I'm an elk, it's a beautiful day, I'm happy. He would just do that type of a bugle. And if I would cow call, he would bugle and say I'm over here. He'd turn right at me and say you can come over here if you want. I'm not coming to you. Read the script perfectly. Everything the same, no change in his behavior. I'm like, okay, this is when it's going to stay there. And so my initial lost calf call was back there and he immediately responded, but it wasn't coming. I'm like, okay, same movie as the last several days, but now I'm going to get a little bit closer and make a couple of things change. So I would rake a tree and he'd make a little sound but wouldn't come. I would do all these little things. Well, finally, I'm like, okay, I'm going to cowboy up. Here it goes, this is it. I got to get my guy the results he wants. So now I walk all the way back to I'm now like 35, 40 yards behind him, the client, and the fog is just lifting enough where I can actually see the tips of the bull's antlers, and now I can see he actually re-bedded.
Speaker 2:Nothing's more disrespectful to me than the elk I've been calling with being so disinterested that in the middle of our conversation he read he rebeds with his cows. Right, I'm supposed to be the expert. So this plays out and I'm like okay, this is it. Now. I don't get nervous when I'm with clients for the most part, um I I just enjoy the moment so much. But knowing I was about to do something that was not what he wanted was way more scary to me than the fact I was about to do something that was not what he wanted was way more scary to me than the fact I was about to do something to change the behavior of the bull. But it's all about the outcome, right? So I literally sitting there if you guys can picture this, all I'm going to do is shock bugle. So I alluded to it a minute ago.
Speaker 2:Shock bugle. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not familiar, imagine being in the living room of your house watching a football game on a Saturday night with some friends. You're chilling, having pizza and wings, having the time of your life, and all of a sudden there's a complete stranger in your house who threatens you and he's literally like in your living room with you out of nowhere. That's what a shock bugle is. A shock bugle is designed to be an imminent threat to an elk, but not only an imminent threat to the elk in general. But oh, by the way, I'm already inside what I like to call an animal safety zone. I'm inside your safety zone where you now feel I'm either a threat to hurt you or take your cows. So picture me. Normally I'm more like casual with my stuff.
Speaker 2:In this moment I'm literally sitting there with the bugle tube just waiting for him bugle, because when you do a shock bugle to do it properly, it's not a technique. I recommend. Until you've perfected it outside of the woods, do not try to do this the first time with an actual elk. Practice this in your truck, which is how I learned it for years. You practice all these things in your truck. You practice with your turkey calls, your elk calls, all your calls. You practice with your truck by yourself your calls. You practice with your truck by yourself.
Speaker 2:You cannot be a good elk caller if the first time you ever call an elk is actually at an elk. Okay, so don't be that guy. I see a lot of them in the field, right, yeah, I believe it, yeah. So so here I am, I'm literally standing this, and I can just see where the elk is. So you can kind of see, sometimes, their, their, their movement, when you know he's about to bugle. Cause all I want to do, ladies and gentlemen, is, when he bugles, I'm going to cut him off, I'm going to hammer him right on top of his bugle he's not even going to get a third of his bugle out and I'm bugling. And it's that same situation as you're in your living room and I just shock, bugled on top of you. I just showed up in your house as an unwanted guest and I'm a threat to you and your football friends party.
Speaker 1:Sugar that fight or flight thing, let's go.
Speaker 2:So here he goes. He starts and I just, I just shocked you right on top of him and instantly he jumps up out of his bed and he's now coming on a string I see the guy look back at me real quick and then he's dead eyes forward and so he goes and I can see the bull is coming right to him.
Speaker 2:Like this bull needs no other calls. Like I will not make another sound. He's coming on a string. So this is where this new term comes. Excuse me, this is where that new term comes in. So he's coming on a string. So this is where this new term comes in. Excuse me, this is where that new term comes in. So he's coming on a string.
Speaker 2:I can see his tops, I can see the client's ready and again, he's a Navy SEAL, he's prepared, he knows what he's going to do and I've been in this situation dozens or hundreds of times, I've been really blessed to be on a lot of successful stocks and presents himself. As I'm looking at the client more than the elk, I'm like that bull is dead. This is a good angle from where I'm standing, and I see him go to draw, I'm like, oh, that's a dead bull, sweet. And as he goes to draw he stops and I'm like, oh crap, maybe this angle is not quite as good as I thought it is. And the bull stopped and he's starting to look around and he's, like you know, a big mature elk has been in this situation before. They're like. I should probably see a bull elk at this point in my journey.
Speaker 1:And he doesn't.
Speaker 2:And I'm like man, if I shock, bugle him now, it's not going to make sense because he's not bugling. Maybe I can rake a tree, Maybe I can do something. I already know a cow call is not going to matter, he's got all of his posse behind him. Bugle but make a little sound. And so I make that little grunt and, sure enough, he starts walking again. When I see Mike go to draw, I'm like, oh sweet, the first time I must've not had a good angle. What I'm seeing is not what he's seeing and that's why he didn't finish the draw. Now I see him to go draw again and he stops. I'm like, dang, from my angle, right, it looks like a clear shot, but I'm not the shooter. I don't know what branch he sees, that's in the way or what I don't know. And so this happens one more time and I, I rake a tree and now that bull takes four more steps and I see him go to draw. I'm like, now that bull's going to die a hundred percent and he goes to draw and he stops. And by now that bull's the bull, the gig is up, the bull turns and he slowly starts to walk away. And there wasn't any series of noise I could make that would get him to come back in that moment. So what ended up happening was I walked all the way back to him, the client, and I didn't want to like I could see the client was a little bit of distress, so I didn't want to be like what the heck happened, you screwed up, or anything like that. I just walked up and I let him be the first one to break the silence.
Speaker 2:This is when I learned a new term. He goes dude, I cheese melted. I'm like you did what? Okay, I totally cheese melted. I'm like is that like some Navy seal code? Like what does that mean? He goes dude, I could not draw my bow. I'm like what do you mean? He goes. Every time that bull stepped out he was perfectly broadside from nine to 16 yards and I couldn't physically draw my bow. I'm like no, no, no, no. There's something wrong with your bow. You probably have a rock or something in the cable. Something's wrong because you're a Navy SEAL. Dude, you can draw your bows Like there's nothing wrong with my bow.
Speaker 2:In that moment I could not draw my bow. I tried like seven different times. I'm like I saw, I just thought you didn't have a shot. He's like I couldn't draw my bow. He's like what do we do?
Speaker 2:I'm like, well, that bull picked up his cows because of the fog, because the weather's probably going to go six, 700 yards. We'll go back to camp, We'll check your bow, We'll have some lunch and we'll get right back out here and let're not really talking about it much anymore. And then, right as we're getting to the truck, he's like we don't need to go all the way back to camp. I'm like what do you mean? He's all watch this and he just draws his bow 70 yards, boom, hits the dirt, burn perfectly, Right, right next to the rock he said he was aiming. We have, we love buck fever or bull fever in that instance. We love that moment, we love that adrenaline. But here's a highly trained, highly decorated, highly award Navy seal. That taught me a new word. But apparently, when you can't draw your bow due to the sheer overall excitement, they drown, pumping through your blood and your knees are knocking. It's called cheese melting and I thought your audience would appreciate that story.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. That's amazing, Okay. So, uh, I have to ask did he kill that bull?
Speaker 2:So the short answer is he shot that bull. Um, it got killed by another hunter the same day and, uh, mike still killed a really really good bull, still North of 360, 365.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's an awesome bull, mike still killed a really really good bull still north of 360, 365.
Speaker 2:He got a bad arrow in that bull. Actually it probably would have been lethal, but totally ethical, totally legal the way it all went down. Another guy got him. We went back to hunting so we actually got to shoot two bulls and he ended up killing a fully symmetrical six by seven, so not completely symmetrical like 360, four 363 and a half.
Speaker 2:Oh, geez, fre a half. Oh, oh geez, frickin dinosaur. Yeah, people forget that too. I'll take that bunny trail for a second, if you let me. Uh, most steakhouse bulls.
Speaker 2:If you go to a new steakhouse in Chicago and there's a big elk in there, the average hunter will think that's a 400 inch bull. Your steakhouse bulls, ladies and gentlemen, like three, 10, three, 20. So if you've never hunted elk before and you're getting ready to hunt elk for the first time and you call a guy like me and say I only want 350 or better, one of my first questions is going to be have you ever seen a 350 or better elk? Because when you see a 290 bull coming into archery range for the first time in your life, you're going to bet me everything you own that that's a 370, 383, 390 bull and it's a 290. So just enjoy the moment.
Speaker 2:Don't put so much pressure on yourself to put a score on something. Go out and enjoy nature. Go out and enjoy the freedom that we live in a country where you can hunt elk and take all that pressure you've put on yourself. Put it on the sideline. Enjoy the hunt, let God dictate the score and you just go out there and have a good time Hell yeah, hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I shot a bull two years ago and he's probably like 308 somewhere in that range. Awesome ball. One of his um, his like like five and six point on his left side or kind of like snapped off not snapped off so much, as like maybe he was injured, and they came in more like a knife than a point, and so they're like six, seven inches shorter than the other side, so he's like a 320 bull. And you I mean you tell me that I wouldn't shoot that every day, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:I would blow that I would so happily shoot that elk again. Yes, sir, I've never seen a three. Well, when we were out there we saw some that looked like that big. We didn't get close enough to really see them. One of them I forget the term, but his left, antler, was like a moose paddle and his other, antler was like a regular.
Speaker 1:Palmated See the palmated one. And they said that guy was probably 360, 370. But we were 300 yards away from that guy. But I can't even imagine what it would be like to roll in front of a dinosaur like a 350. It is so cool.
Speaker 2:If you get a chance, go play at our website a little bit. We have a three, I'm sorry. We have a 458 bull. We killed a couple years ago 440 bull. We killed a couple years before that. Both of them top 10 in the world, one in the typical, non-typical category.
Speaker 2:And I say that in this perspective. Only 4% of the elk harvested every year are 350 or better and less than 1% are 360 or better. So you know, for those of you guys that are either experienced or new elk hunters, like a 300-inch bull is a great bull, A 320 is tremendous, 330, 340 is insane, 350 is ridiculous, A 320 is tremendous, 330, 340 is insane, 350 is ridiculous, 375s, Boone and Crockett, like. Just you know, I just see it.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's because guys are writing a check or they left their family and friends behind to go on a guided hunt. They just put so much pressure on themselves and you know, ultimately just need to relax and go out there and have a good time. You're going to see a lot of elk if you're hunting out West in a good spot with a good outfit, or even by yourself if you've done your homework. And uh, I think as a community we need to take a little bit less pressure off ourselves on how big of an elk we kill. Like you get the guy at work. It's like don't even come back to this office If you don't kill a three, seven you're better, and the guy's never killed anything and enjoy freedom in the United States of America.
Speaker 1:Hell, yeah, I think that's a great way to wrap this thing up, dan. Um, thank you so much for your stories, man. They were great. Like I I've said it before, poo stories are some of my favorites, and it's just, and you didn't even know that, and you showed up with two good ones right off the bat. So thank you, and that bull story is great. I have to ask this what did I know? You know he, we got he he cheese melted. But what did he say later? I'm assuming you guys talked about you actually throwing that bugle out. He was cool.
Speaker 2:He was asking yeah, what was really cool about it was he didn't know. It was me at first.
Speaker 1:Oh, he thought it was another bull.
Speaker 2:Yep, so, and he told me that that's why he looked back so far over his shoulder, cause he thought he had another bullet snuck in right behind him and it scared the crap out of him. So it was validating, number one, that my bugle sounded okay Right, and number two, he was totally cool with it and obviously he got the result he wanted. Oh, and to finish the story, thanks again for asking Guess what For the rest of the duration of the hunt. Guess what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I bet he's like dude you do whatever you want.
Speaker 2:You know, this is your this is your, this is your camp. You do, you, do, you. I'm like great Day nine. Thanks, dude, day 10. Thanks, I got permission finally to do my job for you, but it all worked out in the end and we did get to hunt the full duration of the hunt, so it was just awesome. Great American hero.
Speaker 1:Called it. Call it into nine yards before you convinced him that it was an adequate way to hunt elk. That's funny. All right, dan. Well, let's do this. I know you've got some stuff you want to kind of share with the audience. I know you've got a book. Why don't you go into that a little bit? And then, of course, where the people can find you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to stay in touch with anybody that's interested wwwdiamondoutfitterscom. So diamondoutfitterscom is all of our big game hunts for landowner over the counter. Some of the draw hunts. Our biggest thing that's the biggest thing in north america right now it's getting a lot of attention is my hunt club. That's zero outfitter feescom. Literally the letter the word zero outfitter feescom. That's my hunt club. You pay an annual membership fee to be in my inner circle.
Speaker 2:There are 14 animals in 37 hunts in five different states where when we get you drawn, we'll do all your draw paperwork for you. When we get you drawn, we'll guide do all your draw paperwork for you. When we get you drawn, we'll guide you for free. I will actually pay for your guided hunt. That's zero outfitter feescom. And then you can find diamond outfitters zero outfitter fees on Facebook and on Instagram and then our YouTube channels, diamond outfitters. And that's where my old episodes 10 seasons of the best of the West TV are hung, as well as all the episodes of diamond outfitters television.
Speaker 2:So I'd love to stay in touch with you guys on social. You can again use diamond outfitters. You can use your outfitter fees, instagram or facebook or our websites. Um, just feel free to stay in touch with us. We always love to hear great hunting stories. You could just follow us there for all of our adventures. My social media team does like 10 posts a week and we're still hunting. So if you like to see stuff where it's fresh and it's new, like our hunting season's not over. We've got Oryx hunts going on right now.
Speaker 2:Mountain lion hunts going on right now, bear hunts and bison hunts getting ready to start, turkey hunts getting ready to start. So we only hunt, don't hunt like two months out of the year. So just by following us on social you'll see all the live stuff. We just posted a bull elk 48 hours ago. That it says is this the new number one bull elk in the world typical category and that's gone semi-viral. So if you want to go look at a giant bull, you can go do it there and just have some more fun.
Speaker 1:How big is that?
Speaker 2:bull. Well, that's the thing, so it's posted. Is this the biggest living bull elk in the world? Throw out your guess and we're having everybody throw up their guess. Oh, okay, gotcha we're kind of having a little bit of fun with it. But if you get a chance to look at it, especially when you see his fronts. His tops don't match his fronts. If they did, he'd be a 500-inch elk. How about I tell you that? And this is a free-range public land elk, by the way, Wow.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. That's amazing. Okay, and then your book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my book is called Suck Less at Hunting Don't let the title fool you, it's actually a satire.
Speaker 2:The forward was written by Craig Boddington and then I wrote the book. Now it's not finished. It's finished with editing but it's not full released yet. So you can reach out to us on social with your email address. Get on our waiting list. It's going to be super inexpensive for an ebook and the printed copy is also going to be crazy inexpensive If you don't buy it there. You can come see me at any of my speak engagements, at any of the big hunting shows around the country, from Dallas Safari Club to Wild Sheep Foundation to Safari Club International Nashville All the big shows. I'm speaking there. You can catch me there and we'll get you signed up for the book too. So I appreciate you letting me put that out there. It's called Suck, Let Us Hunt Hunting. But again, it's not an ego book, it's a satire and hopefully everybody will learn something too. What's the estimated release date on that bad boy? I'm going to say May 1st.
Speaker 1:So thanks for putting me on the spot and putting the pressure on my team. Okay, there we go. There we go, perfect, dan man. Well, this was a ton of fun. I think I want to have you back here in the future. Most people come on, they end up messaging me shortly it and everyone listening. I'll put the links to everything you need for Dan in the show notes, so just click there and check out what Dan's up to. Thank you, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for having me, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:All right, guys. That's it Another couple of stories in the books. I want to thank Dan, of course, for coming on the podcast, reaching out and sharing some of his crazy stories. I still I'm telling everyone I know about the guy who fell in the train and I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1:But, dan, thank you again for coming on For you listeners. Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in. Please do check out Diamond Outfitters ZeroOutfitterFeescom. You check out Diamond Outfitters ZeroOutfitterFeescom all that stuff. Links for everything you need are in the show notes. But beyond that, please make sure you share the podcast with one person. Give us a review whatever stars you think we're worth on whatever platform you're listening to. But most importantly, guys, get out there and make some stories of your own. Thank you so much.
